Pining for the Fjords - More than usually random thoughts

Pining for the Fjords

A long squawk

More than usually random thoughts

5th-Mar-2005 01:10 pm

Am I the only one who's bothered by the fact that "Angelus" named himself after a daytime prayer? The Angelus was traditionally said morning, noon, and evening, and I think mostly of the noontime version. (Possibly because that was the time of day when there was a nun around to see it was observed? Although I have only vague memories of saying the prayer, maybe during retreats? Or maybe the association is with the famous painting.) I wonder if the writers even knew of the prayer or if they were just Latinizing "Angel" to be cute? Or is there some profundity here regarding Angelus naming himself after prayer that marks the times he must hide from the sun?

ETA: Since most people probably aren't familiar with the Angelus, I've put the text behind a cut tag. The church bells in Catholic communities used to ring to remind people to say this prayer, and all activity would stop for a few minutes while people recited it.

V. The Angel of the Lord declared unto Mary.
R. And she conceived of the Holy Spirit.
Hail Mary, etc.

V. Behold the handmaid of the Lord.
R. Be it done unto me according to thy word.
Hail Mary, etc.

V. And the Word was made Flesh.
R. And dwelt among us.
Hail Mary, etc.

V. Pray for us, O holy Mother of God.
R. That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.

Also, "Ghost and Mrs. Muir" was just on. Is there any fanfic that shows the story from the little girl's point of view, I wonder? It would be interesting to see how Anna charmed Captain Gregg at the same time he was falling for her mother. Did the child ever see him in the TV series? I don't remember.

Okay, this afternoon I write. I am posting that fact so I will actually do it. Right after I start the laundry, and . . .

*puts on resolve face*

Mood:determined

Comments

5th-Mar-2005 11:14 am (UTC)

wasn't it said somewhere that Angelus meant "he with the angelic face"? because that would definetly be Angelus-humor.

anno_superstar

5th-Mar-2005 11:18 am (UTC)

Yes, that's the explanation they've given it in the Jossverse. Of course, in real life, or etymlogically, Angelus means nothing of the sort. It comes from the Greek for 'messenger'.

gamiila

6th-Mar-2005 09:28 am (UTC)

Thanks for that reminder. Which brings us to Gabriel and miraculous births, I suppose. Again, this may not have been intentional, but I suppose there's a case that the Connor storyline is a dark echo of Jesus' birth.

missmurchison

5th-Mar-2005 11:22 am (UTC)

I think that's the explanation Giles gave. But Liam would have known of the prayer too. In fact, church bells used to ring, three times a day, to remind people to say a prayer that ended with these words, "That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ." It struck me as a bizarre name for an Irish vampire to choose or to accept, if someone else gave it to him.

missmurchison

5th-Mar-2005 11:24 am (UTC) - Angelus

I've always taken comfort in the fact that they're pronounced differently - although that's probably just a UK thing - we always emphasised the first syllable, whereas on TV, the emphasis is on the second..

Interestingly, well to me anyway, our local church still rings Angelus bells, although they're at 8.30, noon and six in the evening. They couldn't get away with ringing it at six in the morning, so it's late.

But I remember something about the name coming from what his sister called him. I think she knew he was dead, so when he knocked on the door, she thought he was an angel and invited him in. Then again, that could be fanfic. There comes a time when the line between the shows and the fic becomes blurred, and I'm past that.

josephine_64

5th-Mar-2005 11:40 am (UTC) - Re: Angelus

I've always taken comfort in the fact that they're pronounced differently - although that's probably just a UK thing - we always emphasised the first syllable, whereas on TV, the emphasis is on the second..

Yes, to my ears, too, they are different words.

And whatever smartypants explanation Joss came up with later, I think they were just Latinizing "Angel" in an ignorant non-Latin speaking way, as Miss M suggests.

Also, get writing Miss M. I am watching you from my sooper sekrit spy satellite, and I'll know if you are slacking. I want more fic.

keswindhover

5th-Mar-2005 11:59 am (UTC) - Re: Angelus

p.s. I forgot to say, I don't have any porn lurking about my person, but the first three stories nimonated in the Bedtime Stories Awards are all shortish NC-17 Spuffy:

http://members.shaw.ca/btsawards/BtSAwards.htm

keswindhover

6th-Mar-2005 09:31 am (UTC) - Re: Angelus

There were varying pronounciations on the shows. Varying interpretations of the name? It's amazing how you can take something that was probably accidental and find all kinds of alternative meanings in it.

missmurchison

5th-Mar-2005 11:38 am (UTC)

I think it was Darla who named him, which may explain a lot.

elinora

5th-Mar-2005 11:41 am (UTC)

Hi Elinora! *waves*

How is the 'eclair crisis, with incidental mention of a trial' fic going?

keswindhover

5th-Mar-2005 12:02 pm (UTC)

You should be seeing a rough version by next weekend. Unless I'm too busy eating pastries to write...

elinora

5th-Mar-2005 12:04 pm (UTC)

Unless I'm too busy eating pastries to write...

I know you have to keep up your strength, so I can wait. *puppy dog eyes*

keswindhover

6th-Mar-2005 09:32 am (UTC)

Darla's brain was an interesting place, wasn't it?

And I'm glad you stopped in! I hope we see more of you soon.

missmurchison

5th-Mar-2005 11:50 am (UTC) - Ghost and Mrs. Muir show

As I recall, on the TV show, both the mom (Blythe Danner or Hope Lange? I always mix them up) and the kids, as well as the dog, could see and communicate with the Captain. The housekeeper couldn't, though, leading to lots of amusing confusion.

willowgreen

6th-Mar-2005 09:33 am (UTC) - Re: Ghost and Mrs. Muir show

I think it was Hope Lange, and I now vaguely remember another kid. In the movie, we don't find out the girl saw him until after she's grown up.

Thanks!

missmurchison

5th-Mar-2005 01:17 pm (UTC) - Yep...you are probably the only one

...that bothered. But now it is bothering me, too...thank you very much!

Rabid huffs at Miss M...also let me know if that brave "This afternoon I write" posting really works for you...my psyche just laughs and laughs when I post things like that.

rabid1st

6th-Mar-2005 09:36 am (UTC) - Re: Yep...you are probably the only one

Hee, sorry! I wound up writing a short fic about Angelus instead of what I was supposed to be working on, so it worked, but only after a fashion. I think my psyche is laughing after all.

missmurchison

5th-Mar-2005 04:06 pm (UTC)

Actually, Angelus was pronounced two different ways depending on who said it. I assume the guy himself would know best, but even Dave pronounced it with different syllabic emphases depending on the season. So my take is that it was another inside joke, along the line of monsters of the week being named after key grips, because originally, Angel(us) was going to be killed off by S2. It then just happened to work out along the correct Catholic lines, so the Master says "the latin for Angel" and retcons the hell out of it later on. Although it WOULD be lovely to think Joss really went there in terms of knowing the meaning and making it fit the character from the beginning, nun-obsession and all.

kita0610

6th-Mar-2005 09:38 am (UTC)

Thanks. Yes, isn't it fun to find all these deep meanings in coincidental references? It doesn't even matter if they were really coincidental. We can always just claim Joss' subconscious was working overtime.

missmurchison

5th-Mar-2005 05:23 pm (UTC)

Wasn't it Darla who gave Angelus his name? Not sure, though. And yeah, it's kind of creepy that his name comes from a prayer. (I still remember when we used to pray that in grade school, although there hadn't been BtVS then.) I guess it just makes his reputation scarier, especially with his penchant for nuns.

hieispike

8th-Mar-2005 07:14 pm (UTC)

Yes, it all fits well, whether intentionally or not. I think there's a point where a fictional creation really does start to take on a life of its own, and the Buffy/Angelverse has done that.

missmurchison

5th-Mar-2005 09:15 pm (UTC)

I sort of like the idea that the name can be taken in so many different ways. There's the Angelic Face thing, the "his sister called him an angel thing", the Darla thought it up, and the blasphemous nature of a vampire taking a naame from a catholic prayer. On their own, each doesn't quite seem enough, but as a whole I think it adds to something pretty slick.

dlgood

8th-Mar-2005 07:15 pm (UTC)

I agree. It makes a nice, ironic list!

missmurchison

6th-Mar-2005 01:43 am (UTC)

Plus this same vampire has a Christian symbol - the winged lion of St Mark - tattooed on his back. I would love to know if whoever designed the tat knew what the original was when he did it.

If you google for pictures of Angelus you get an amusing mixture of Buffyverse and this picture by Millet

peasant_

8th-Mar-2005 07:17 pm (UTC)

I remember that picture well. It used to hang on the wall in an art classroom, so I'd see it every day.

And thank you for the information about the tatoo. I knew it was wings, but didn't realize the origin. St. Mark was an evangelist, and therefore a bearer of good news. Yet another irony for Angel, whose life and unlife was full of bad news.

missmurchison

6th-Mar-2005 12:47 pm (UTC)

The Catholic churches in Ireland still ring the Angelus three times a day. Usually 8, noon and 6 but the morning one is variable. The 6pm one is aired on the national TV channel (RTE 1) right before the evening news - though they try and play up the ecuminical angle and call it 'time for meditation' and other such new age malarkey. Seeing people saying the prayer is rare though. Although there is a great deal of schoolyard humour about saying the Angelus as penance and going 'Bong!' The bells ring in three sets of three and one of nine - which sounds very pagan numerology really. My baby daughter, like the good, little, unbaptized, fairy child that she is, howls whenever she hears it.

sammywol

8th-Mar-2005 07:21 pm (UTC)

I think there's a cable channel here that airs it, but I haven't seen anyone pray it in ages and I've never heard any of the local churches ring it. There's only one Catholic parish nearby, and it's a new construction in an area where there are probably zoning laws against too much noise.

I never heard of the Angelus as penance, but it makes sense. It gives you plenty of chances to sin if you do penance three times a day!

missmurchison

10th-Mar-2005 12:28 am (UTC)

I am not sure, due to lack of personal experience, of the theological validity of saying the Angelus as penance. It is a necessary part of the joke though.

sammywol

6th-Mar-2005 05:09 pm (UTC)

they were just Latinizing "Angel" to be cute

I'm gonna go with this one. And then they made up the story about its meaning to justify using it. Also? I hate how they pronounce it on the show. I hate how they pronounce a lot of things, come to think of it.

::is cranky::

bandgeek

8th-Mar-2005 07:21 pm (UTC)

::soothes you::

missmurchison

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